This is the report from the meeting in June, this time brought to you by Philip Körte instead of derflippi, as Flippi was busy over the past month and gave PhilipK his notes.
Every month, several more or less local and not-so-local judges and not-yet-judges meet in the area (Frankfurt Main, Germany) in a restaurant for a nice evening. We’re usually around 10 judges from Germany, including all kinds of levels (0-3) and experience(ranging from “I want to become a judge” to 15 years judge veteran). This meeting is not a meeting with a previously set schedule, like judge conferences have one. We simply meet, and since we’re all judges, it happens that we discuss and talk quite a bit about judging stuff too. To share ideas and this we give not only us, but everyone else too, the opportunity to improve,
The topics from this week in a certain order:
1. Rules: Blind Hunter and Clone
2. Policy: Scry gone wrong, part 2
3. Policy: Dictate of Karametra
4. Policy: Priority, Communication and technically correct play.
1. Rules: Blind Hunter and Clone
Annie has a Blind Hunter and a Clone copying the Hunter on the battlefield. Nami kills the cloned Hunter. Will Haunt trigger? If it does, what happens when the haunted creature dies?
Even though Clone is only itself in the Graveyard, Haunt will trigger, exiling the Clone haunting a creature, because haunt triggers based on the existence on the battlefield.
However, when the creature haunted by Clone dies, nothing happens, as Clone does not have a haunt-trigger while in exile.
2. Policy: Scry gone wrong, part 2
Akali has 1 card in her hand, and just resolved an Omenspeaker. She now puts her hand face-down on the table, next to her library, and picks up the top two cards of her library for her scry 2. After thinking about it, she declares ‘both bottom’ and slides them under her library.
She then asks Nunu ‘Where did I put my hand?’, to which Nunu answers ‘You just put it next to your library, right?’. They then call you, agreeing that Akali had a card in her Hand before the scry, and probably pushed it under her library when she slid the scryed cards there.
Nami does not know the card in Akalis hand, Nami tells you which cards she scryed to the bottom and in which order, and which card she had in her hand. You find exactly those cards at the bottom, the card she claimed to have had in hand at the very bottom. What Infraction happened, if any? Do you rewind?
Extra Credit: Does your answer change if Akali had 3 cards in hand, and now has 2 (with the card on the very bottom beeing the one she claims to have had in hand)?
We agreed upon this beeing a Game Rule Violation with a warning for Akali (no FTMGS for Nunu, as they called a judge as soon as they noticed something had gone wrong). We also agreed that we would most likely not rewind, as Nunu cannot confirm the identity of the card in Akalis hand, both when she had only 1, or more cards in hand.
The point was made that one could technically rule this as Drawing extra cards, as the scryed cards must have touched the card(s) in hand in the process, but we agreed against that. We would like your opinions on this :).
3. Policy: Dictate of Karametra
Nidalee has Dictate of Karametra and 3 untapped lands in play.
Amumu has 8 lands and a few creatures in play, taps 4 lands and casts Jace, Architect of Though. Jace resolves, Amumu declares attacks, combat damage gets resolved.
In his postcombat mainphase, Amumu taps his remaining 4 lands to cast Kiora, the Crashing Wave. Nidalee points to Dictate and announces ‘You have 4 mana in your pool from dictate.’, to which Amumu responds ‘ok, 3u, 1g in my pool then’, Nidalee then taps her 3 lands and declares ‘Syncopate for x=5.’.
Amumu then calls you and says ‘Nidalee didn’t announce her dictate-triggers when I cast Jace in my precombat main. I want to put them on the stack now to pay for Syncopate.’
We came to the conclusion that Amumus line of play is legal – he does not need to point out the missed triggers by Nidalee. Nidalee will get a warning for Missed Trigger, as the Dictate-triggers that give her opponent mana are generally detrimental. Amumu gets to put them onto the stack now, and can thereby pay for Syncopate.
4. Policy: Priority, Communication and technically correct play.
Aatrox has some creatures and an (unactivated) Mutavault in play. He asks ‘Declare Attacks?’, to which Nasus responds ‘sure’. Aatrox then taps a land to activate mutavault, moves mutavault to his creatures and asks ‘ok?’, which Nasus again confirms.
When Aatrox then tries to attack, Nasus says ‘You activated Mutavault after going to declare attackers, so you already passed the point where you can declare attacks’. A judge is called. Aatrox tells you ‘I obviously want to activate Mutavault before declaring attackers.’.
How do you rule here?
Aatrox has some creatures in play. He asks ‘Declare Attacks?’, to which Nasus responds ‘sure’. Aatrox then taps 10 lands and declares ‘Silence the Believers targeting this, this and that, ok?’, to which Nasus nods, takes the 3 creatures and puts them into the exile.
When Aatrox then tries to attack, Nasus says ‘You played Silence the Believers after going to declare attackers, so you already passed the point where you can declare attacks’. A judge is called. Aatrox tells you ‘I obviously wanted to cast Silence before declaring my attacks.’.
How do you rule here? Is the answer different from the one with Mutavault? Why, or why not?
Does it make a difference if Aatrox asked ‘Combat?’ instead of ‘Declare Attacks’?
Does it make a difference if Aatrox asked ‘Go to beginning of combat?’ instead?
We did not come to a clear agreement on all these between all of us, so we would like your opinions on this before posting our majority-vote.
As a reminder, the topics from this week in a certain order:
1. Rules: Blind Hunter and Clone
2. Policy: Scry gone wrong, part 2
3. Policy: Dictate of Karametra
4. Policy: Priority, Communication and technically correct play.
The Policy topics gathered quite some interest! You can read the input of other judges at Judge Apps Forums