Rhein Main Judges June Part 2

This is the second part of my report from the monthly judgemeeting in Frankfurt.
The first part can be found here.

Again, we assume Competitive REL for all cases.

6. Policy – Ulvenwald Mysteries
7. Policy – No dice rolls
8. Policy – Double Fetch

6. Policy – Ulvenwald Mysteries
Sandor controls Ulvenwald Mysteries and a clue token. He activates the Clue token and draws a card. Then he reaches to his pile of tokens and puts a 1/1 white Human Soldier token onto the battlefield. His opponent Gregory claims Sandor missed the opportunity and calls for a judge.

This situation split us into two sides basically:

Give him the token.
He didn’t forget it, he just carried out the stack in a wrong order. “Out-of-Order-Sequencing”.


Do not give himt he token. He made a game action (drawing a card) that indicates the game progressed past the point of the trigger.

There is not much else to say about a). It is likely he indeed didn’t forget. He wants the token regardless what he draws. But applying a) causes many problems, say the proponents of “missed trigger”: Maybe the opponent drew a card that reminded him of the Ulvenwald Mysteries trigger. What if Gregor has a Dual Shot and Sandor drew a pumpspell like Strengthen the Arms?

Since we were split 50:50 on this case, i’d love to hear your opinions on this situation, if possible with backup from the rules and policy documents

7. Policy – No dice rolled
Robert wins the die roll against Walder and announces he’ll play first. Both players draw their opening hands, finish mulliganing and Walder starts to play the game, playing a land. The game goes on for some turns, then when players want to figure out whether a player played a land or not, they find out that Walder should not have started. Rob was “stolen” the right to play first, even if it was unintentionally.

We condenses the situation and figured it’s just a regular Game Rule Violation. Either rewind to the very start of the game, or keep the game as it is.

8. Policy – Double Fetch

Theon activates his Flooded Strand. He grabs his library and puts a Tundra onto the battlefield and shuffles his library. He uses Tundra for something, the game goes on. In his next untap step, he untaps all his lands, and to see what lands he has available better, starts to sort them. At this point, it is noticed an Underground Sea is stuck to Tundra. Appareantly, he fetched “both”.

This is a Game Rule Violation. We agree on this. The default is to rewind the game or keep it as it is. But is the partial fix suggested in the IPG applicable here as well?

IPG 2.5 GPE-GRV Additional Remedy
If an object is in an incorrect zone either due to a required zone change being missed or due to being put into the wrong zone during a zone change , the identity of the object was known to all players, and it can be moved with only minor disruption to the state of the game, put the object in the correct zone.

The Underground Sea was moved “during a zonechange”, the identity of the object is clear to all players, and it can be moved with only minor disruption. Underground Sea wasn’t used for mana. No game choices were made based on the existance of said Underground Sea. Both players assumed only Tundra was fetched with the Flooded Strand. They played the game as though Underground Sea.

Yeah, we can probably apply the partial fix here! Do you have doubts?

I am interested if someone could break the Ulvenwald Mysteries situation up. Right now, we’re not on the same page, but there’s always this thing “consistency” we try to achieve.

The first part can be found here, with these topics discussed:

1. Rules – Rabid Bite vs. Murderous Redcap
2. Rules – Zoetic Cavern vs. Grave Peril

3. Policy – 2 Werewolves 1 Trigger
4. Policy – Madness
5. Policy – Missing Investigations

Thank you for reading. If you’re interested in more reports of this kind, leave a comment!

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