{"id":3344,"date":"2013-05-31T07:00:40","date_gmt":"2013-05-31T14:00:40","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/?p=3344"},"modified":"2015-02-05T15:54:50","modified_gmt":"2015-02-05T23:54:50","slug":"turn-burn-vs-enchantments-11-counters","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/2013\/05\/turn-burn-vs-enchantments-11-counters\/","title":{"rendered":"Turn \/\/ Burn vs. Enchantments \/\/ +1\/+1 Counters"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><p><img  style='float:right'  class='lems-mtg-cardimg' src='http:\/\/gatherer.wizards.com\/Handlers\/Image.ashx?size=small&type=card&name=Turn \/\/ Burn'><\/p>Alright, it&#8217;s time for everyone&#8217;s favorite topic: layers!<\/p>\n<p>Wait, please, stop, don&#8217;t go. We&#8217;re only going to be looking at the power and toughness layer, and after reading this, you won&#8217;t look so confused after you tried to Turn and Burn your opponent&#8217;s creature that&#8217;s enchanted by an Unflinching Courage and find out that the creature didn&#8217;t die.<\/p>\n<p>Alright, so a quick refresher, let&#8217;s look at the three relevant sublayers in the power and toughness layer to this question (note there are two other sublayers, but they don&#8217;t really influence this question, so we&#8217;re just going to ignore them for now).<\/p>\n<p>First, we have effects that set a creature&#8217;s power and\/or toughness to a specific number. Examples of this are <a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-content\/plugins\/lems-mtg-helper\/lems-mtg-helper-cardfinder.php?find=Dragonshift&width=223&height=310\" class=\"jTip\" name=\"\">Dragonshift<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-content\/plugins\/lems-mtg-helper\/lems-mtg-helper-cardfinder.php?find=Turn+to+Frog&width=223&height=310\" class=\"jTip\" name=\"\">Turn to Frog<\/a>, and the Turn half of <a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-content\/plugins\/lems-mtg-helper\/lems-mtg-helper-cardfinder.php?find=Turn+%2F%2F+Burn&width=223&height=310\" class=\"jTip\" name=\"\">Turn \/\/ Burn<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Second, we have effects that increase or decrease a creature&#8217;s power and\/or toughness without setting it to a specific number. This includes things like <a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-content\/plugins\/lems-mtg-helper\/lems-mtg-helper-cardfinder.php?find=Giant+Growth&width=223&height=310\" class=\"jTip\" name=\"\">Giant Growth<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-content\/plugins\/lems-mtg-helper\/lems-mtg-helper-cardfinder.php?find=Fatal+Fumes&width=223&height=310\" class=\"jTip\" name=\"\">Fatal Fumes<\/a>, and <a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-content\/plugins\/lems-mtg-helper\/lems-mtg-helper-cardfinder.php?find=Unflinching+Courage&width=223&height=310\" class=\"jTip\" name=\"\">Unflinching Courage<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Finally, we have bonuses from counters. This includes bonuses from +1\/+1, -1\/-1, and other types of counters.<\/p>\n<p>Ok, still with me so far? Ok, because it&#8217;s all downhill from here. If you noticed, back up in the first step, I mention that&#8217;s the layer that the effect from Turn applies in. But there&#8217;s still two other layers of effects that get to apply. So if I have a random <a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-content\/plugins\/lems-mtg-helper\/lems-mtg-helper-cardfinder.php?find=Bear+Cub&width=223&height=310\" class=\"jTip\" name=\"\">Bear Cub<\/a> with an <a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-content\/plugins\/lems-mtg-helper\/lems-mtg-helper-cardfinder.php?find=Unflinching+Courage&width=223&height=310\" class=\"jTip\" name=\"\">Unflinching Courage<\/a> attached to it, and you cast Turn on the Cub, we apply the effect from the Turn first, making it a 0\/1. Then we move to the next layer, and that&#8217;s the layer that the Courage gives its bonus in, so the net result is that the Bear Cub goes from a 4\/4 to a 2\/3.<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s a similar situation with counters. If I have another Bear Cub with three +1\/+1 counters on it and you cast Turn on it, we apply the effect from Turn first, then in a later layer, we apply the bonus from the counters, so my Cub ends up as a 3\/4 in this case.<\/p>\n<p>One final note: you may be wondering &#8220;The Courage was attached to the creature first, then I cast Turn. Since Turn was cast later, why doesn&#8217;t it completely override the bonus from the Courage?&#8221; The answer is that the order things resolved in only matters if the effects both apply in the same layer. Turn applies in a different layer than the Courage, so it doesn&#8217;t really matter in which order you resolve the two effects in; the answer is the same.<\/p>\n<p>One last point of confusion to clarify. Since Turn\/\/Burn removes all abilities in Layer 6, and that effect was created after the enchantment became attached and added Trample and Lifelink to the creature, the end result is a creature without Lifelink and Trample (or any other abilities) that still gets +2\/+2 in the Power\/Toughness sublayer (Layer 7c, if you care).<\/p>\n<p>Thanks for sticking with me. Layers can be complicated, but hopefully you&#8217;ve caught enough information from this article to understand this situation.<\/p>\n<p>Today&#8217;s Rules Tip written by Nathan Long<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Alright, it&#8217;s time for everyone&#8217;s favorite topic: layers! Wait, please, stop, don&#8217;t go. We&#8217;re only going to be looking at the power and toughness layer, and after reading this, you won&#8217;t look so confused after you tried to Turn and Burn your opponent&#8217;s creature that&#8217;s enchanted by an Unflinching Courage and find out that the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":"","_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"categories":[131],"tags":[949],"language":[1196],"class_list":["post-3344","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-interactionofcontinuouseffects","tag-turn-burn","language-en"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3344","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3344"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3344\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3357,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3344\/revisions\/3357"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3344"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3344"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3344"},{"taxonomy":"language","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.magicjudges.org\/rulestips\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/language?post=3344"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}