Summary of Difference between Destroy and Dies

 

To begin this discussion, let’s get right into a question. We’re back on Theros, and I cast Hero’s Downfall on an Elspeth, Sun’s Champion. What happens?

• Jason Chance explained what Destroy means quite clearly – When the spell resolves, Elspeth is destroyed. To carry out that action, you move her from the battlefield to the graveyard. See CR 701.7

Now that we know what “Destroy” means, what happens if you were to cast the same Hero’s Downfall on a Verdurous Gearhulk, and in response I sacrifice my Welding Jar to regenerate the Gearhulk?

• In this instance, a regeneration effect from the Welding Jar replaces the destruction effect from Hero’s Downfall.

What if I attack you with the same 4/4 Verdurous Gearhulk (with no counters on it) and you block with a 4/4 Lathnu Hellion, what happens after the turn based action of combat damage in the combat damage step?

• This was correctly answered by Michael Miles and recently certified L1 Christian Keffer – The creatures are destroyed as a result of state based actions that check for lethal damage or damage from a source with deathtouch.
• Therefore the creatures will also die, in that it takes the physical action of being moved from the battlefield to the graveyard. For the simple and elegant rule that describes this, see CR 700.4.

So if Destroy and Dies will do and look at the same thing, then why do we have 2 terms in the game for it?

Let’s consider this example. You control 4 Ornithopters and I control a Rest in Peace, and I cast a Fracturing Gust. How much life would I gain after Fracturing Gust resolves?

• This question caused quite a stir, however Mark Mason and Scott Markwart both managed to get the entirety of the answer, which is that you would gain 10 life. Each of the Ornithopters along with the Rest In Peace would be considered destroyed by the destroy effect of Fracturing Gust, but the Ornithopters wouldn’t Die because their moving to the graveyard would be modified by the Rest in Peace replacement effect. You still destroyed those items though, so you’ll gain the life from them.
• What if I cast Fumigate instead of Fracturing Gust? Same thing, as the spell only cares about a creature being destroyed this way, so you would gain 8 life because only the 4 Ornithopters are affected.

Let’s look at Darksteel Colossus. If you were to target it with the same Hero’s Downfall from earlier, and you control a Blood Artist. Will the Blood Artist trigger?

• No. Effects that say destroy don’t affect anything with indestructible. They outright cannot be destroyed, and in fact, cards with indestructible ignore state based actions regarding lethal damage.
• In this example, the creature would not die, so no trigger from the Blood Artist

What if you Tragic Slip the Darksteel Colossus with Morbid being active? Will your Blood Artist still trigger?

• This was a curveball question correctly identified by Mark Mason – No. The Replacement effect on Darksteel Colossus will always prevent the dies trigger as it never will go to the graveyard at all. Instead, the replacement effect will have you reveal and shuffle it into your library.

What if you were to Tragic Slip a Darksteel Myr? Will that trigger your Blood Artist?

• The creature is still not destroyed, as it cannot be. However, the creature will die due to state-based actions and having 0 or less toughness, and therefore move it from the graveyard from the battlefield, in which case Blood Artist will finally trigger. This is where Dies happens to be different mechanically from Destroy as opposed to the previous example, and shows why we need both terms in the game rules. Neat, huh? 🙂

Josh Ohlendorf introduced a question about Legendary Permanents, and timing of how the Legend Rule works. If you control a Catacomb Sifter and a Rishkar, Peema Renegade, and then cast a second Rishkar, how does the Legendary Rule interact with the triggered ability from both the Catacomb Sifter and Rishkar #2?

• Justin Reintz got this one with a little detailed clarification from Mark Mason: there is a state based action that requires you to choose a Rishkar to keep and then move any other copies of Rishkar on the battlefield to the graveyard. In doing so, the Rishkar dies, triggering Catacomb Sifter. From there you can order the triggers on the stack as you wish.

So time for a final exam! I’m playing Modern Bogles and have a Gladecover Scout enchanted with a Hyena Umbra and a Spider Umbra, both of which have Totem Armor. You cast an Anger of the Gods. What happens?

• There was a LOT of great discussion on this topic, as it does initially look a little unintuitive and confusing if you haven’t studied on the distinction between being Destroyed and Dying. I highly recommend checking out the thread on facebook to read through the answers and discussion. So let’s walk through everything that happens in this, step by step!
• First, Anger of the Gods resolves, dealing 3 damage to the 3/3 Gladecover Scout.
• Anger of the Gods will be looking to see if a creature dealt damage by AotG would die to apply its replacement effect. Totem Armor on both the Spider and Hyena Umbra both look for the Destroys event to occur, and instead replaces it with removing all damage from it and destroying the Aura with Totem Armor.
• The Destroy effect would be replaced by the Totem Armor effect of that controller’s choosing, and Anger of the Gods doesn’t apply because the creature is no longer dying, instead a Totem Armor enchantment is sacrificed. All damage has been removed from the permanent, and we move on from there.
• In this instance, only 1 Totem Armor enchantment would be sacrificed, as Totem Armor is a replacement effect that applies when a creature would be destroyed. Therefore, you choose which replacement effect to use up, and then the remaining Totem Armor never has a chance to apply because the creature is no longer being destroyed.
• A question brought up by Josh Ohlendorf is what would happen to the Gladecover Scout if it’s dealt lethal damage again later in the turn – would Anger of the Gods replacement effect continue to apply and exile the creature?
• The answer to that is yes, because Anger of the Gods looks for any creature that was dealt damage by it to die at any point in the rest of the turn. Even when the damage marked on the creature is removed by Totem Armor, it’s still a creature that has been dealt damage by Anger of the Gods, and so if it were to die at all through the rest of the turn, it will go to exile as part of Anger of the Gods’ replacement effect.

Further reading: Destroy CR 701.7 ; Dies CR 700.4
Related article: An exploration of damage events